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View Poll Results: Should there be another American Civil War?
Yes 66 52.38%
No 60 47.62%
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Old 09-05-2012, 11:47 AM   #91 (permalink)
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WI Lutherans are definitely taught that Catholicism is at best a perversion of Christianity. 1) they are idolaters that worship the Pope, Mary and the Saints in direct contradiction of the word of God 2) they do not believe the bible to be literally true esp timeline-wise
Yeah, I think in gradeschool our pastor even did a Catholic joke in a sermon, it was pretty rediculous.

The main things Lutherans don't like about Catholics is that they have to pray through a saint to get to God, and that they used to make the church unaccessable to normal folk. There is also some back and forth about communion. I have heard the iconography argument, but not the timeline of the Bible one. Do they not believe in the literal Bible? I thought they did?

My saddest moment as a wedding photographer was when this young Catholic couple got married. They had a baby already and refused to have the baby in their wedding pictures. They wanted to ignore that the baby was born out of wedlock. I finally convinced them to do one picture, I can't imagine being that kid and being brought up as a mistake. So sad. Not that Lutherans are any better with out of wedlock, a girl from my Lutheran high school got expelled for being pregnant while the father just got to go on like nothing happened.
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Old 09-05-2012, 12:44 PM   #92 (permalink)
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One can argue that having some sort of religion can help you better understand the world as well...that person would proabably be a Bhuddist =)

I'm not negating science at ALL. Evolution DOES exsist, but humans used to be sludge? That part requires just as much faith as religion does. We have more chromosomes alike to a starfish and more skeletal similarities to a dolphin rather than some apes. I feel some have pushed the humans came from apes story as hard as others have pushed that we started as Adam and Eve.

I also think spirituality has become this evil buzz word and gets completely ignored. There is value to both sides. Meditation has proven to lower blood pressure when medicine couldn't. People have been miraculously healed. Scientists have become Christians while they were trying to disprove religious theories.
Humans didn't use to be sludge, and we didn't come from apes. Humans and apes evolved from a common ancestor. But humans were always humans, as apes were always apes.

"We have more chromosomes alike to a starfish and more skeletal similarities to a dolphin rather than some apes." I'll need to see the source to properly put in context.

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Can't both sides just admit that there is so much unknown? Why is science more useful than spirtuality? I think they can coexsist nicely.
There are no atheists in the trenches. But you also can't build a bridge on faith.
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Old 09-05-2012, 01:33 PM   #93 (permalink)
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Humans didn't use to be sludge, and we didn't come from apes. Humans and apes evolved from a common ancestor. But humans were always humans, as apes were always apes.

Also, the "humans come from apes" trope is a willful misrepresentation of evolution that is pushed by creationists.
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Old 09-05-2012, 01:35 PM   #94 (permalink)
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Humans didn't use to be sludge, and we didn't come from apes. Humans and apes evolved from a common ancestor. But humans were always humans, as apes were always apes.

"We have more chromosomes alike to a starfish and more skeletal similarities to a dolphin rather than some apes." I'll need to see the source to properly put in context.

There are no atheists in the trenches. But you also can't build a bridge on faith.
Dolphins have thumbs, two legs that make up their tail, a belly button, their blowhole is two nostrils, they even have hair, and they have sex for pleasure. They are a lot more physically similar (especially in body to brain ratio) than most apes.

The chromosomes with a starfish will be harder for me to find, I wrote my research paper over a decade ago. (I'm editing here...adding that a lot of the starfish/human studies are based on limb regrowth...there are enough similarities between the two species that scientists are really researching it. Though science also says that horses and bats have more similar dna than horses and cows...so...)

The big bang theorists totally believe that all life came from primordial sludge, and where did the common ancestor come from then?

Last edited by stulagu; 09-05-2012 at 01:42 PM. Reason: added a comment
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Old 09-05-2012, 01:44 PM   #95 (permalink)
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Also, the "humans come from apes" trope is a willful misrepresentation of evolution that is pushed by creationists.
My sister was taught this in public college...I totally believe evolution exsists. I'm saying, though, that teaching our beginnings with evolution is the same as teaching it started from a heavenly being. Neither can be proven or disproven.
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Old 09-05-2012, 01:53 PM   #96 (permalink)
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Dolphins have thumbs, two legs that make up their tail, a belly button, their blowhole is two nostrils, they even have hair, and they have sex for pleasure. They are a lot more physically similar (especially in body to brain ratio) than most apes.

The chromosomes with a starfish will be harder for me to find, I wrote my research paper over a decade ago. (I'm editing here...adding that a lot of the starfish/human studies are based on limb regrowth...there are enough similarities between the two species that scientists are really researching it. Though science also says that horses and bats have more similar dna than horses and cows...so...)
That just demonstrates that a posteriori knowledge is not certain. Constructing an ancestral tree requires some guesswork and IRL we only get degrees of certainty.

John Locke called...

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The big bang theorists totally believe that all life came from primordial sludge, and where did the common ancestor come from then?
There is a difference between "came from" and "used to be"

Last edited by DWarrior; 09-05-2012 at 01:58 PM. Reason: John Locke called
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Old 09-05-2012, 02:03 PM   #97 (permalink)
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This is one of the most interesting reads I've had on here since picking XrabbitX's brain for saying he was a Gnostic Christian(they still live?!). I have a whole new respect for stulagu and even wanna pick her brain on this lol. I'm also surprised to see so many people actually understand where the Old Testament came from and some of that other inside baseball bullshit. Shit, I may have to read more posts on here.

I'm not used to seeing this on a regular; not in this state atleast lol. Hell I was asked this morning what I thought about the Democratic Convention. And was promptly told how the parties are identical and the Illuminati controls them both.

Yep.
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Old 09-05-2012, 02:23 PM   #98 (permalink)
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Seriously Stu? how does that make us MORE like dolphins than apes?

Guess what apes have?
thumbs [on hands]
two [non-fused] legs
belly buttons [all mammals have this]
2 nostrils [on their face, not the back of their heads]
Hair [quite a bit more than humans or dolphins, granted]
sex for pleasure [see bonobos]

Your theory is whack.
only one or two monkey species have sex for pleasure, not all apes. one of the big similarities between apes and dolphins are the brain to body ratio, proportion of limbs and bones, they have large brains and the communication sections are very similar. How they raise their young is similar as well. The bones in the hands are more similar to humans than an ape as well...and humans are very different from apes with how their neck and facial features are. Yep, the dolphin nostrils are on the back of their head, but they are right next to each other seperated by tissue like a humans, not two seperate nostrils away from each other like an ape.

Dolphins act more like humans than apes and are extremely intellegent, we get more communication out of them than the apes we spend years teaching sign language...we just need to learn how to read a dolphin. Dolphins can put together complex sentences and show compassion as well as problem solving. And yes, a few apes can do, but on a much lower level.

I'm not negating apes at all, just trying to show likenesses because it shouldn't just be "humans and apes come from the same ancestor" if your arguing similarities between species.
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Old 09-05-2012, 02:48 PM   #99 (permalink)
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LOL, OK scientist
Yes, they point at cards and put together sentences. Apes can put together basic sentences with sign language...we can't read dolphins in this way because we can't comprehend their language.
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Old 09-05-2012, 02:49 PM   #100 (permalink)
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LOL, OK scientist
they can solve complext problems, too. it is just harder to judge their intellegence. does that clear it up?
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