1645: The Civil War II

[rodimusprime]

Originally Posted by stulagu

I don't know about that...yes, a lot of evil has been done because of religion, but a lot of horrible things happened because we're human and that seems to be what we do best.

It is because we're social beings that we flock to beings like us to find a place to belong. Whether it is religion, or politics, or race, or financial status, we group together.

Originally Posted by Blitzgal

But we do already use other ways to separate ourselves from each other. Nationality is a big one, for instance. And race. Even gender and sexual preference.

That's just the bad side of our survival instinct. The good side is cooperation and empathy, like you said. Humans are social animals and we do literally need one another to survive.

I agree with both of ya'll.

[Nightengale64]

Most of the old books of the bible are stories from the cultures before the creation of the bible. They wanted to include those stories that they could not dispute. The great flood is just one of those stories. It appears in many cultures hundreds of years before before the bible and in several different cultures. Eve and the serpent was created to dispel a myth that a local culture who worshiped a serpent god was correct.

I wish the chrisitans to look really hard at the books so that they can see just how out of date they really are. Keeping the old laws of stoning and whatnot that speak of cruelty towards all others might open their eyes to the major flaws in their thinking. Logical arguments with them garner me no ground.

I would love for a catholic to admit where the church money came from in the first place. The pope was in charge of running several brothels and often the popes died of STDs.

[stulagu]

Originally Posted by Nightengale64

Most of the old books of the bible are stories from the cultures before the creation of the bible. They wanted to include those stories that they could not dispute. The great flood is just one of those stories. It appears in many cultures hundreds of years before before the bible and in several different cultures. Eve and the serpent was created to dispel a myth that a local culture who worshiped a serpent god was correct.

I wish the chrisitans to look really hard at the books so that they can see just how out of date they really are. Keeping the old laws of stoning and whatnot that speak of cruelty towards all others might open their eyes to the major flaws in their thinking. Logical arguments with them garner me no ground.

I would love for a catholic to admit where the church money came from in the first place. The pope was in charge of running several brothels and often the popes died of STDs.

That is the OT not NT...I think most Christians realize the Moses did not personally write the first 5 books of the Bible. I don't think the stories were written as a politcal agenda, though...

the Catholics are quickly losing ground, especially since some of their own are turning away from their strict beliefs...a group of nuns was just disbanded and a man was put in charge of them because they were too liberal, we'll start to see their obvious contradictions come to light more and more.

And the church got their money from taking land and espionage, they didn't get rich off of brothels.

[Nightengale64]

Their steady income was houses of ill repute. If you read some of the anthropology reports on the old books you will learn of the majority view that the old stories were created in response to the stories of the time that they were written. I have spent my the majority of my scholarly studies on this.

[stulagu]

Originally Posted by Nightengale64

Their steady income was houses of ill repute. If you read some of the anthropology reports on the old books you will learn of the majority view that the old stories were created in response to the stories of the time that they were written. I have spent my the majority of my scholarly studies on this.

I'm going to need to see some support and facts on this...I've studied it as well, and nowhere have I been taught that the Catholic church made it's money from brothels. Yes, they turned convents into basically brothels, but you're saying that they made their money this way, which suggests this was the main source of income...

[rodimusprime]

Originally Posted by stulagu

That is the OT not NT...I think most Christians realize the Moses did not personally write the first 5 books of the Bible.

Stuff like this both gives me hope for and turns me off towards religion. Like how can so many people realize that huge parts of their belief system is complete bullshit but still organize against gay rights, abortion and protect child molesters? It's just so odd.

[Nightengale64]

I am trying to remember which of my text books said this. It was when the person was appointed pope by the king and the position went to one of his brothers or kinsmen so that they could keep the views and opinions of the vadican in their pockets. I shall try and find the book title for you if you want.

[stulagu]

Originally Posted by rodimusprime

Stuff like this both gives me hope for and turns me off towards religion. Like how can so many people realize that huge parts of their belief system is complete bullshit but still organize against gay rights, abortion and protect child molesters? It's just so odd.

There are plenty of Christians that support social issues and that realize seperation of Church and state is important. I'm a Lutheran, and we broke away from the Catholics hundreds of years ago...it sucks to lump us all together, though I understand why it is done. (but the Catholics are the molesters, not all Christians)

I am attending a church that belongs to a denomination that is anti gay and doesn't allow women to be pastors. I totally disagree with these views. However, it is VERY hard for me to find a church that meets the main reason why I go to church (a knowledgable pastor that knows the Bible and how to teach it, good music, a healthy environment, and that I can take something from each week spiritually). I have made enemies in my church speaking out against the social views, but I have also had people privately thank me for being vocal about my social views.

There are Christians that line gay pride parades with signs saying "I'm sorry" apologizing for the church's attitude. Eventually, enough will get the courage to do the same. It will take a LONG time to turn the established denominations around, but I hope it happens.

I think a good amount of logical Christians, when argued with respectfully, realize that when boiled down, the very basics of Christianity is about loving everyone, no matter who they are. Whether that gets translated to "I don't agree with you, but wont' judge you" or "hate the sin, not the sinner" or "by golly, just because you're gay it doesn't mean you're not a good person" or "I don't care who you are, lets all hold hands and pray" I don't know...but these next couple decades will definitely be tumultuous ones for Christian traditions.

I just photographed a wedding of two women that are very devoted Christians, their wedding was way more spiritual and emotional than most straight weddings I've shot, and it meant even more seeing these families embrace their daughters for who they are. I was moved to tears many times.

[stulagu]

Originally Posted by Nightengale64

I am trying to remember which of my text books said this. It was when the person was appointed pope by the king and the position went to one of his brothers or kinsmen so that they could keep the views and opinions of the vadican in their pockets. I shall try and find the book title for you if you want.

Ok, wait, so ONE text book said this? and it was in ONE instance?

[Blitzgal]

Originally Posted by Nightengale64

I am trying to remember which of my text books said this. It was when the person was appointed pope by the king and the position went to one of his brothers or kinsmen so that they could keep the views and opinions of the vadican in their pockets. I shall try and find the book title for you if you want.

I don't want to be....mean....but you studied this topic in school and can't spell "the Vatican?"

Are you talking about the Borgias?