2893: The Talk w/ Andrea Allan

[Hera]

Originally Posted by Keith

Loopylou69,

No. I'm realizing people lie. Or are lying to themselves. But I wouldn't take back where I am for... $7,000.

Lemme think.

$13,000.

Yeah.

Seriously, this is good. How can I find The One assuming everyone is a fuckin' liar?


Hera,

Grow up and ask for what you want out of life. How don't you feel like a piece of shit thinking, "But he REALLY should know better..."

Keith, You misunderstood me, and I know you'll only get more verbally abusive if I try to explain. It's your anger and your insistence on absolutes, eg calling the women 'liars' if they can't express complex and conflicting emotions, etc. At least give them a break about that, you know??

[Sakugenken]

It is interesting listening to Keith and Mermaids arguments. It is like they are not speaking the same language. The word "date" seems to mean a completely different thing to both of you. I think the problem is that Mermaid seems to believe that the women Keith are dating have the same definition that she does. Why would you keep dating someone if it won't go any further- Why not? If you are enjoying your time when you are on a date or having sex, it doesn't make it any less if you enjoy another person the next day. Just because a relationship is not destined to get more serious does not mean that it has no value. If Keith is being honest about this how is it hurting anyone? What other point of view are you so anxious to hear? If anyone is not into this they should just stop dating him. It is like people getting into a relationship that is not what they want but thinking they can "change" their partner in time.

[Steph]

What I heard is that Keith has been clear with the women he is dating about what he is doing. One of them made passive-aggressive/sarcastic comments and Keith called her out when she did that. I love that. Sarcasm is a defense mechanism that can be disguised as humor. I know I have used sarcasm that way a lot and only when people started calling me out on it did I change. As far as I know none of these women are chained up in Keith's apartment. They are free to leave if they don't like the terms of the relationship. It is insightful and smart to call someone on a snarky joke - if it's just a joke, fine, but often it is not.

[The Girl]

I don’t feel like Keith mislead anyone in these scenarios. To me, he is describing people misleading him and themselves.

When, for example, one woman “hinted” (with jokes and sarcasm (not cool)) that she was catching feelings. He addressed it. She swatted him down for taking her joke seriously.

When she repeated that behavior, he asked again. She swatted him down.

When she finally admitted it was true, she was already angry with him. But for what?

Keith was considering his date’s feelings along the way. He was asking friends if he was missing something or if he’s being unkind.

If I was telling someone that I was happy with the way things are and then blew up at them, I shouldn’t be defended as hard as you guys are defending this.

We all need to take responsibility for our own feelings. If you’re not getting what you want in a relationship while someone is asking you what you want and need and taking it seriously, what is the expectation?

I don’t see what he did wrong. He was honest and caring. Being upset because he’s openly sleeping with more than one partner and calling him deceiving because of that seems wrong to me.


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[Mermaid]

Originally Posted by Sakugenken

It is interesting listening to Keith and Mermaids arguments. It is like they are not speaking the same language. The word "date" seems to mean a completely different thing to both of you. I think the problem is that Mermaid seems to believe that the women Keith are dating have the same definition that she does. Why would you keep dating someone if it won't go any further- Why not? If you are enjoying your time when you are on a date or having sex, it doesn't make it any less if you enjoy another person the next day. Just because a relationship is not destined to get more serious does not mean that it has no value. If Keith is being honest about this how is it hurting anyone? What other point of view are you so anxious to hear? If anyone is not into this they should just stop dating him. It is like people getting into a relationship that is not what they want but thinking they can "change" their partner in time.

It sounds like the women have the same definition of dating as me and that is why there is conflict.

That is why I asked if he made it clear that they want different things.

He says he did.

Before I decide that these women have xyz negative attributes I'd like to hear their side.

Its completely possible that the communication wasn't as clear to them as Keith thinks it is. Or that it was clear at first but they changed their mind or grew attached.

The reason I think its important to make a distinction between "dating" and "fucking without pretense" is for situations like this. Saying that you are dating multiple people does not imply that y'alls relationship is a dead end relationship. That's something you have to make clear in addition to "I'm dating multiple people".

Keith said he did that.

I'd like to hear what she says about the whole thing.

[Keith]

I’ll see if I can get her on the horn.

[Archimedes_Screw]

This is still going on? Lol

[Mermaid]

No one is saying that Keith is responsible for another adult's feelings.

But it's clear that he's picking up on the discrepancies between what she's saying and what she's doing.

He sees that the situation that they have bothers her and is unwilling to change the situation.

What I'm asking is: Why couldn't he have ended it when it became obvious they weren't on the same page? He has already made it clear she isn't going to be a part of his future, so what is lost?

Im starting to think the only reason people are skewing toward the tough love angle here is because it's a woman.

I dont think we would encourage a woman to continue dating a guy who made them uncomfortable about their situation, sent mixed signals and will probably end up hurt because "only a crazy person would give up dick".

[Lanfear]

Originally Posted by Mermaid

No one is saying that Keith is responsible for another adult's feelings.

But it's clear that he's picking up on the discrepancies between what she's saying and what she's doing.

He sees that the situation that they have bothers her and is unwilling to change the situation.

What I'm asking is: Why couldn't he have ended it when it became obvious they weren't on the same page? He has already made it clear she isn't going to be a part of his future, so what is lost?

Im starting to think the only reason people are skewing toward the tough love angle here is because it's a woman.

I dont think we would encourage a woman to continue dating a guy who made them uncomfortable about their situation, sent mixed signals and will probably end up hurt because "only a crazy person would give up dick".

I'd like to see how this discussion would go:

'Hi I'm sorry but I can't see you anymore. I would love to keep dating you but I believe that you are lying to me when you say you are ok with our current situation. So to summarize it's not me it's definitely you and I'm doing this for your own good. Bye bye!'

[Mermaid]

Originally Posted by Lanfear

I'd like to see how this discussion would go:

'Hi I'm sorry but I can't see you anymore. I would love to keep dating you but I believe that you are lying to me when you say you are ok with our current situation. So to summarize it's not me it's definitely you and I'm doing this for your own good. Bye bye!'

Is ending things with what you consider a liar really a bad thing?

He was picking up on her signals that were contrary to their agreement.

Turns out she was lying.

Did he have to wait for her to confirm her lies before he could remove himself from the situation for it to not be condescending?