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Old 01-11-2010, 02:56 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by better dylan View Post
They could have but they didn't. They made some material that no one could afford the catalyst for the whole movie. which is retarded.
Please go read my explanation back on page 2. If you disagree, let me know.
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Old 01-11-2010, 04:28 PM   #72 (permalink)
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I think you're missing the point. Unobtanium is in no way the purpose for the movie. In fact, the detail of it is so unimportant that they didn't bother to explain it. And, the presence of it is so unimportant that, if removed, it could have very easily been replaced by any other known or unknown desire. For example, remove unobtainium & just pretend that the King of the Human Universe wants to make his new castle where the Tree of Souls now stands. He doesn't have to explain himself, he's King of the Human Universe for crying out loud.
ROLL FILM!

It would make no difference & therefore is not purposeful to the film. I thought the name of it was stupid, but now it makes more sense reading some of these posts.

In the end, unobtainium was placed on the planet long ago by the Eywa, the mother Goddess, so that it could now be used as the catalyst for conflict. A conflict she needed to in order to unite the tribes & get some tribal cross-breeding going on (not to mention the bonus of the fresh introduction of human DNA). Do you know what happens when you isolate a small gene pool over along period of time? You get guys that look like this guy! :
You contradicted yourself there. Unobtanium (Christ, Cameron needed to come up with a better name for a metal) is the primary reason for that whole operation. The story ended up being the love story, but that doesn't make unobtanium irrelevant. Is the story of Rose and Jack the same story if the Titanic wasn't sinking? Nope, their story changes in a different setting.

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He didn't take a huge risk in the story. He played it safe there.
I wish he hadn't. I have never understood why it has to be either a beautiful film or a well told story. It could have been both. I thought the story was painfully simple, but Cameron is notorious for not having other writers help punch up his scripts. I felt like the movie was incredibly beautiful and I did believe the reality he offered up, but I wish he hadn't played it so safe. It was high-school storytelling.

BTW, if anyone listens to filmspotting, their reivew of Avatar summed up a lot of the points many of you are making. For this movie they took the words out of my mouth. Check them out if you are interested: Movie Podcast, Film, Reviews, Cinema, Critics Filmspotting: FS Reviews: Avatar / Nine
from there you can download the show.
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Old 01-11-2010, 04:39 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BrownEyedBtch View Post
Is the story of Rose and Jack the same story if the Titanic wasn't sinking? Nope, their story changes in a different setting.
Bad analogy. It's equivalent to getting stuck on what kind of diamond was in the necklace.
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Old 01-11-2010, 04:49 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Bad analogy. It's equivalent to getting stuck on what kind of diamond was in the necklace.
I wasn't necessarily referring to the type of metal unobtanium was as much as I was referring to the purpose of the whole mission. In Titanic, it was about sailing to America and having the voyage go awry. In Avatar, it's about having their spy finding a home among the natives and not supporting the mission after all.
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Old 01-11-2010, 05:18 PM   #75 (permalink)
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You contradicted yourself there. Unobtanium (Christ, Cameron needed to come up with a better name for a metal) is the primary reason for that whole operation. The story ended up being the love story, but that doesn't make unobtanium irrelevant. Is the story of Rose and Jack the same story if the Titanic wasn't sinking? Nope, their story changes in a different setting.
I missed where I contradicted myself -- please point it out with quotes or something. And Cameron didn't name it, the term Unobtainium already existed. If Cameron had come up with something completely made up (like Marcosium), then I might find myself agreeing with better dylan in his comment that maybe it should have been explained. My point is that since he used something that is itself defined as a humorous literary device, he is saying, quite clearly, that it is not a relevant detail to the story. He might as well have called it thingthatisnotrelevanttothestoryium. And as I said in a previous post, replaceable = irrelevant. Since the whole concept of unobtainium can be replaced with any other catalyst, it is therefore irrelevant. The mission, in Avatar, could have been anything.

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Originally Posted by BrownEyedBtch View Post
I wish he hadn't. I have never understood why it has to be either a beautiful film or a well told story. It could have been both. I thought the story was painfully simple, but Cameron is notorious for not having other writers help punch up his scripts. I felt like the movie was incredibly beautiful and I did believe the reality he offered up, but I wish he hadn't played it so safe. It was high-school storytelling.
I agree. Please understand that I'm not defending this as some brand new well told story for the ages, although its hard to say its not a well-told story when everyone keeps comparing to other successes like Dancing with Wolves & Pocahontas. Its well told, or the comparisons couldn't have been made. But yes, painfully simple, as each logical conceptual leap was spelled out just 20 minutes prior in the film.

But literally every story could have been 'better told', and so I don't begrudge him for not wanting other writers involved.

I'm just saying it seems silly to get stuck on "Unobtainium" when the word itself is pratically defined as 'ignore me'. Its clearly a circular joke by whoever through it in the script, and, in retrospect, is one of the more clever parts of the story-telling.

And you're wrong by the way, Rose & Jack's story could have been on the Hindenberg (or on a spaceship orbiting Seti Alpha 5) & it could have been just as great. When people originally asked you about seeing "Titantic", did you say, "Yeah, the boat sinks at the end." Of course not, because the story wasn't about the big boat that sank.

And Picard can speak for himself, but he's correct, Unobtainium = Necklace (the thing that made her want to go to find the boat), and Pandora = Titantic (the setting/backdrop for the story).
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Old 01-11-2010, 05:24 PM   #76 (permalink)
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I missed where I contradicted myself -- please point it out with quotes or something. And Cameron didn't name it, the term Unobtainium already existed. If Cameron had come up with something completely made up (like Marcosium), then I might find myself agreeing with better dylan in his comment that maybe it should have been explained. My point is that since he used something that is itself defined as a humorous literary device, he is saying, quite clearly, that it is not a relevant detail to the story. He might as well have called it thingthatisnotrelevanttothestoryium. And as I said in a previous post, replaceable = irrelevant. Since the whole concept of unobtainium can be replaced with any other catalyst, it is therefore irrelevant. The mission, in Avatar, could have been anything.



I agree. Please understand that I'm not defending this as some brand new well told story for the ages, although its hard to say its not a well-told story when everyone keeps comparing to other successes like Dancing with Wolves & Pocahontas. Its well told, or the comparisons couldn't have been made. But yes, painfully simple, as each logical conceptual leap was spelled out just 20 minutes prior in the film.

But literally every story could have been 'better told', and so I don't begrudge him for not wanting other writers involved.

I'm just saying it seems silly to get stuck on "Unobtainium" when the word itself is pratically defined as 'ignore me'. Its clearly a circular joke by whoever through it in the script, and, in retrospect, is one of the more clever parts of the story-telling.

And you're wrong by the way, Rose & Jack's story could have been on the Hindenberg (or on a spaceship orbiting Seti Alpha 5) & it could have been just as great. When people originally asked you about seeing "Titantic", did you say, "Yeah, the boat sinks at the end." Of course not, because the story wasn't about the big boat that sank.

And Picard can speak for himself, but he's correct, Unobtainium = Necklace (the thing that made her want to go to find the boat), and Pandora = Titantic (the setting/backdrop for the story).
When you said unobtanium is irrelevant to the film, then said it was placed there by the native mother, that is what I thought was contradictory. Again, I am not talking about the name itself, which I thought was silly. It was the red herring plot, but it was still relevant because it was what drove the general and the corporation to want to get the natives out of the tree so they can have the metal.
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Old 01-11-2010, 06:54 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Plot

I think we all know that Unobtainium is what Hitchcock called the McGuffin. It doesn't matter. He used the original - Uranium - for the McGuffin in the film Notorious. The element names at the top end of the periodic table are (currently) Ununbium, Ununtrium, Ununquadium, Ununpentium, Ununhexium, etc and are just named for their atomic numbers - unobtanium doesn't sound very out of place amongst that lot.

I went to see it on saturday and I have to say that the plot hole that stuck out for me was having 'Jane Marine' (sorry - I've already forgotten the character name) abandon her part in the attack ("I didn't sign up for this") - much to the chagrin of Gung-ho gunner guy. Mysteriously, Gung-ho gunner guy (and presumably anyone else who saw her leave the scene) appears to have let her get away with this act of military desertion. That's pretty convenient because otherwise she'd've been banged up in chokey too and thus unable to effect the escape of our heroes from their military prison and allow the film to continue.

But ultimately does this matter? This film is a showcase for 3d/imax, is fun to watch - and feel you're part of (it's highly immersive) and makes you think there's not much point in going out to the cinema again unless it's 3d/imax.
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Old 01-11-2010, 07:20 PM   #78 (permalink)
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To put this in something more up to date(I assume many if not most haven't seen Notorious), if I had to guess, I would bet that Dylan hated Pulp Fiction because whatever was in the suitcase was a huge plot hole, as it was deliberately left unexplained. Thus, Pulp Fiction sucked, as Dylan never would have gone after the suitcase.
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Old 01-11-2010, 08:58 PM   #79 (permalink)
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To put this in something more up to date(I assume many if not most haven't seen Notorious), if I had to guess, I would bet that Dylan hated Pulp Fiction because whatever was in the suitcase was a huge plot hole, as it was deliberately left unexplained. Thus, Pulp Fiction sucked, as Dylan never would have gone after the suitcase.
Hey man... leave Dylan alone. He's just wrong. Everyone doesn't have to like the movies we like. In order for us to have superior opinions to others some people have to be wrong. I like Dylan and I would appreciate it if you stopped trying to convince him of the error of his ways. Just the idea that everyone around him will look at him like when he starts droning on about "unobtainium" and the fictional politics of a scifi movie ... well that brings my heart joy.

And obviously we've all seen "Notorious" ... I still didn't understand why B.I.G. could just leave the rap game alone. He knew the killers were coming to get him but he just kept on making music.
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Old 01-11-2010, 10:01 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Hey man... leave Dylan alone. He's just wrong. Everyone doesn't have to like the movies we like. In order for us to have superior opinions to others some people have to be wrong. I like Dylan and I would appreciate it if you stopped trying to convince him of the error of his ways. Just the idea that everyone around him will look at him like when he starts droning on about "unobtainium" and the fictional politics of a scifi movie ... well that brings my heart joy.

And obviously we've all seen "Notorious" ... I still didn't understand why B.I.G. could just leave the rap game alone. He knew the killers were coming to get him but he just kept on making music.
I'm not picking on him, I like him, too. Also, he started this thread, I assume he's more than happy to have his ideas poked and prodded. But your post was funny. There's room for us all.
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