how much do you 'owe' the RIAA?

[cbooty]

I think most people don't have a problem with the concept of paying for music - they merely have a problem with the amount being charged.

With the evolution of digital distribution, the value of all media has fallen. It's easier to create, easier to distribute and thus will increase the supply and thus if demand stays the same, the price will fall. The reason it didn't initially is because of the oligopoly the music industry has. If musicians were allowed to charge a variable rate for their product (like Radiohead could, being independant) the price would have adjusted to what the market deemed fair.

Instead, the music industry tried to maintain prices and people were given the choice of either paying $0.99 a song or $0 (steal it). I bet a lot of people would be happy to pay 5-10 cents a song, but since they aren't given the option, they round down because the music industry have priced themselves out of the market.

[Cretaceous Bob]

Originally Posted by cbooty

I think most people don't have a problem with the concept of paying for music - they merely have a problem with the amount being charged.

That's a reason to not buy it.

Not a reason to steal it.

[dzagama]

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

That's a reason to not buy it.

Not a reason to steal it.

And that's the point of contention.

The thieves want to eat the cake.

They don't have the patience for "pure" capitalism.

Instead, they want to undermine its very foundation.

[j2x]

Originally Posted by dzagama

And that's the point of contention.

The thieves want to eat the cake.

They don't have the patience for "pure" capitalism.

Instead, they want to undermine its very foundation.

I don't think they're undermining anything. They've always been there and always will be.

Some would say that capitalism itself is founded on who can cheat the best, but that's a whole nother conversation.

[dzagama]

Originally Posted by j2x

I don't think they're undermining anything. They've always been there and always will be.

Some would say that capitalism itself is founded on who can cheat the best, but that's a whole nother conversation.

You have to realize that I agree with you on a lot of your points.

The happy medium is the stasis formed by your opinion and mine.

[ThisIsMyUserName]

Now that music is a tad cheaper with the Amazon sales and lower priced tracks, this guy that knows this other guy told me they've been going that route. But that guy that the other guys knows will get a song the easiest way they can.
That guy will apparently exclusively pay for music when every song ever made is easily available, high quality, DRM free, requires no extra software to download, and isn't more than 10...20? cents per song.
They have a long way to go. Especially Apple who just raised their prices.

[cbooty]

So, what I'm curious about is all the people vigorously defending copyright law, do you:

-Not have *any* shared, backedup music or mix cd/tapes (is so, really??)
-Not watch any copyrighted material on Youtube (that's stealing ad revenue from original creator)?
-Ever sing happy birthday? (you're supposed to pay performance rights for it - that's why no restaurants sing it)
-Use a TIVO or Slingbox?
-Watch a sporting event with a dozen friends (again public performance)?

The concept of stealing gets muddy pretty fast with intellectual property.

My point is this is not a black/white issue.

[ThisIsMyUserName]

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

Now you are saying thievery is inevitable.
2) I say theft can be stopped. Anti-theft bitching from major players has gotten Comcast to cap uploads for P2P programs. What happens if there's more of that? And more of these ridiculous lawsuits? Torrent sites have been running from the law, and the law is catching up with them. The war's not over, thieves.

Torrents will soon be anonymous and intelligent people will pick their provider based on not being limited. Comcast are a bunch of assholes anyway and I don't know who would choose to do business with them. I'm probably a little on the extreme side, but I won't even buy products from a company like Sony or Apple because I don't like how they do business. I don't like the tone of voice their execs speak in. That's enough for me. Trying to cap data and impose ridiculous fees, whether I'd use it all or not, is also a good enough reason to not use Comcast.

[dzagama]

Originally Posted by cbooty

So, what I'm curious about is all the people vigorously defending copyright law, do you:

-Not have *any* shared, backedup music or mix cd/tapes (is so, really??)
-Not watch any copyrighted material on Youtube (that's stealing ad revenue from original creator)?
-Ever sing happy birthday? (you're supposed to pay performance rights for it - that's why no restaurants sing it)
-Use a TIVO or Slingbox?
-Watch a sporting event with a dozen friends (again public performance)?

The concept of stealing gets muddy pretty fast with intellectual property.

My point is this is not a black/white issue.

Who's defending copyright law? The issue that I'm arguing for is very simple: Artists should be compensated for digital content.

Who needs government to dictate morality, especially with something as straight forward as album sales and book sales?

The issues you bring up are complexities that arise when determining the amount of compensation.

If we were all completely ethical, DRM would not exist. "Used" MP3s could be sold like used CDs, etc.

All the bullshit arises from people wanting to enjoy something, in perpetuity, for free.

The endless debate, unfortunately, is essential to our system.

Neither of our perspectives, taken to the extreme, is optimal.

[dzagama]

Originally Posted by ThisIsMyUserName

Torrents will soon be anonymous and intelligent people will pick their provider based on not being limited. Comcast are a bunch of assholes anyway and I don't know who would choose to do business with them. I'm probably a little on the extreme side, but I won't even buy products from a company like Sony or Apple because I don't like how they do business. I don't like the tone of voice their execs speak in. That's enough for me. Trying to cap data and impose ridiculous fees, whether I'd use it all or not, is also a good enough reason to not use Comcast.

Why is it not possible to extend your Sony/Apple logic to RIAA-backed music?

You don't steal Apple's IP, do you? You avoid it completely.